This lesson is ironic because what it mirrors the racial prejudice in Maycomb. Miss Gates believes what Hitler is doing to the jews is deeply wrong when something very similar is going on in Maycomb. She doesn't realize that many people in the town and the south are prejudiced and persecute blacks. She doesn't think of blacks as people, she overlooks their existence except when a chore needs to be completed. She along with most people in Maycomb were brought up to believe that.
The class is confused about how Hitler could do such a think to people. They don't understand either that the same thing is happening in the town they have lived their whole lives. Scout shows a level of maturity because she has a feeling that something is not right. She inquires to both Atticus and Jem saying, "Jem, how can you hate Hitler so bad an' then turn around and be ugly about folks right at home-" (331) This shows how Scout has more knowledge about current events because she can see the connection between the two issues and realizes that they are both equally wrong.
Questions:
Do you think the prejudice to jews is similar to the prejudice towards blacks in Maycomb?
Do you think that the children in Scout's class could still develop their own opinions about issues in the town without the influence of Maycomb?
Responding to Celia's post, I completely agree with her analysis of the irony in this part of the novel. As we learned in class, I believe that this is dramatic irony (irony that is inherent in speeches or a situation of a drama and is understood by the audience but not grasped by the characters in the play) because Miss Gates actually believes that what she is saying is true, and she believes she is teaching the children an important lesson. She, as we saw with the missionary circle looks out to people like the Jewish people who were being locked up by Hitler, yet she fails to see the real problem in Maycomb. I also agree with Celia when she says that everyone else seems to accept this lesson and believe it to be true without thinking about what is going on around them, but Scout feels the slightest bit of doubt. She tells Jem about how she heard Miss Gates talking about colored people in a racist way, and she can't comprehend why it is okay to be racist to blacks and not Jews. This shows Scout's maturity on the subject and how she is different than most of the people of Maycomb.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Celia's question "Do you think the prejudice to jews is similar to the prejudice towards blacks in Maycomb?", I feel that all racism is similar in a way, but I feel that the Jewish people got more attention and help than the black people. Perhaps that is because the treatment of Jews by Hitler was sudden and new, whereas the treatment of colored people had been bad since slavery started. When something is accepted, it is thought to be "normal", but when something new occurs, it is the cause for people to feel that it is wrong, when the same thing could be happening elsewhere.
In response to Celia's second question, I believe that all children have a sense of right and wrong, and don't feel the pressure to stay quiet about views that are different from the norm. I believe that all people develop their own opinions, but they don't express those that will make them stand out or look bad because they are afraid of what will happen to them (except for people like Atticus).
Now a slightly off topic question. Why do you think Jem reacted the way he did at Scout's mention of the trial? Is there significance to the fact that the rural children could not complete the Current Events assignment and the town children could? If so, what is it?
Adding on to my previous comment, what do you think of this comic?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cartoonstock.com/cartoonview.asp?catref=cwin62
Feel free to look at any of the others on the site
I agree with Celia that Scout is showing maturity because she is aware of the irony going on in this classroom. Scout's knowledge of this definitely comes from Atticus and all that he has taught her and Scout. She has this different view on Maycomb than anyone else in the classroom does which shows how she was brought up. In response to your question, prejudice with jews and blacks are definitely similar, but very different also. The black prejudice in Maycomb was based on what people believed. People had their own views and some were very against blacks and others not. The prejudice against jews is different because Hitler was convincing a whole nation to hate them. Instead of each person forming their own beliefs, Hitler blackmailed them into thinking something else, something he strongly believed in. The people in Scout's class would be very different with out the influence of Maycomb. Since Maycomb is structured in such a way that it influences each person greatly, without this influence every person would be completely different. They would not have some of the same views or beliefs than what they did while being influenced by Maycomb.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Celia and Alex and Amy that this passage is filled with irony. What is very interesting and what I think is different about being prejudice to blacks and Jews is a quote on page 329. “But that ain't no cause to persecute em. They’re white ain't they." This quotes show how Maycomb and the adults have affected the kids because now the children are basing their ideas on skin color. This is so ironic because they are both people but the kids and adults think it is wrong just because the Jews are white. Scout on the other hand shows that Atticus has had a positive influence on her because she is confused about the difference between the Jews and the blacks. Do you think that it is okay to hate Hitler?
ReplyDeleteAlthough in George's quote it is obvious that what he said is right but I do not think that this is the main symbolism of the passage. While reading it I found a direct connection to Tom Robinson's trial. The quote could be simply rephrased like this: "But that ain't no cause to persecute him. He's innocent ain't he?" It shows that the kids were to young to understand the case and now are too young to understand the persecution of Jews. In response to George's question, "Do you think that it is okay to hate Hitler?" I think that in reality it is safe to say that it is more that okay to hate Hitler. He wanted to exterminate a race of people. He was just evil. First of all, "hate" is a very vague word. Vague in a way that people can say they hate someone and not mean it. Vague in a way that people truly deep down absolutely despise that person. From the kids point of view, they are too young to understand him so, yes it is okay for them to hate him, but in a way that is not very meaningful.
ReplyDeleteI agree that this is ironic scene in the book. It is awful to see how racist and ignorant these people are. Also Atticus becomes even more unrealistic again. When responding to Scouts question about if it is okay to hate Hitler he says, ‘“It is not,’ he said. ‘It’s not okay to hate anybody.’” Adolph Hitler is one of the cruelest men in history of mankind, and yet Atticus tells Scout it’s not okay to hate him. Although I disagree with Atticus’s point I believe he had a reason for it. The irony in this chapter is pretty obvious; Miss Gates and the rest of Maycomb are Adolph Hitler. The Blacks are the Jewish people. If Atticus were to say it was okay to hate Hitler he would be saying it is okay to hate Miss Gates and the rest of Maycomb. He seems to be underestimating Scouts ability to understand how the world works.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Amy's comic, I think the comic is very ironic. By saying that the father is not racist, the speaker is actually dubbing him as racist, just towards the white population.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Amy's question about the significance of the rural and town children, I think it is another way Alabama was divided. African Americans and white people were divided, and so were the town and rural people. It shows that there are many ways that you can split people up. Is the town/rural division or the black/white division more significant? Why do you feel the way you do?
Responding to George's comment I do think it is right to hate Hitler. He is a man of such power that neglects his responsibilites and causes chaos. People have every right to hate this man. Atticus saying that people should not hate anyone is too unrealistic. How is it not possible to? Throughout the chapters Atticus seems more of a symbol than a character. His personality is making him seem more like it.
ReplyDeleteI feel like the prejudice to Jews and Blacks are at two different levels. I feel like prejudice in Maycomb is more unrealistic and more dramatic than the Jewish. Both are seen differently too. I feel like prejudice to the Jews are of a more serious matter than in Maycomb. It is big in Maycomb, but prejudice is dealt with heavier with the Jews.
In response to Amy and Celia, I would like to disagree. The racial prejudice of the Blacks and Jews is entirely different. Hitler put people in ovens. He killed millions of people. He had camps that had a sole purpose of killing Jews. Hitler was powerful because his followers did not know what to believe. A powerful man came to them one day with an idea and they followed. I understand this topic may not be understood by some people but the prejudices are completely different. The racial prejudice in Maycomb is big but, in Maycomb, not being racist is almost weird. That is why Ms. Gates is ironic: because she doesn't see racism as a struggle because she is so used to it.
ReplyDeleteWho do you think started racism in Maycomb? How is racism being stopped in Maycomb? Who is most like Hitler in Maycomb (even though NOBODY is comparable)? Do people notice racism in Maycomb? Do people notice racism today?